Single post in Daycare Update 2024 plans
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Zach Writes a Novel
Part One: Context
The main reason I'm so surprised by the possible addition of natures to the base max percentage, is because it would invalidate a lot of people's hard work to put together hundreds of pairs. And... I thought Niet already knew that we didn't want to do that. I thought he was on board with the idea of "yeah, that's not ideal." We actually talked about all this already, albeit much less in depth, in "2024 plans: Round 2!" starting around this post. The whole conversation is long and winding, but I was getting the impression through the discussion that Niet wanted to help us preserve our pair collections. The post I linked before as the start is made by me, and is as follows:QUOTE originally posted by Neonyan
When I read through the post I only read the summary of proposed changes - I didn’t read the in-depth hide boxes because I thought i would have enough info based on the summary.
This part of the compatibility update for the Daycare is very upsetting to me personally
“ This update will wipe all existing compatibility data.”
I know several people who have a 99% pair of every pokemon. That’s months if not years of work to put together. It was a big goal of mine. All that work will be down the drain, and it makes me not want to work on pairs at all until the update is out.
I don’t know if this is a rational or accurate analysis in terms of gameplay: this is just my gut reaction.
TLDR:
EDIT: I have carefully read the entire compatibility update proposition and chatted with some friends off site about it and i am feeling less reactionarily distraught over it. I think that only having to have one OT that’s not you will help immensely in re-pairing efforts. I think my initial reaction was a bit strong, but i still believe that it’s pretty discouraging for people to have to completely start over their max percentage pair collections.
:(
EDIT: I have carefully read the entire compatibility update proposition and chatted with some friends off site about it and i am feeling less reactionarily distraught over it. I think that only having to have one OT that’s not you will help immensely in re-pairing efforts. I think my initial reaction was a bit strong, but i still believe that it’s pretty discouraging for people to have to completely start over their max percentage pair collections.
QUOTE originally posted by Niet
I really normally would not do this, but...
What do you guys think of the idea of allowing old couples to keep the old system, including the old modifiers/boosts, and allow an option to "upgrade" a couple to the new system - this will almost certainly lower their "base" compatibility but unlock access to the significantly stronger modifiers/boosts planned in the update?
QUOTE originally posted by Niet
QUOTE originally posted by funfacterdroid
Methinks it would be good to allow the player to see what the odds would be if they upgraded their pair before upgrading. If that is possible.
edit: like "current pair is 99%, can be upgraded to 140%, would you like to upgrade them?"
QUOTE originally posted by Neonyan
I’m not sure this would solve the problems that most people are concerned about. The reason people collected 99% pairs wasn’t because 99 was a nice number, but because it was the highest possible percentage. Changing the highest possible percentage, even if you left all our pre made pairs at their current 99%, would still ruin the concept of a full collection of max percentage pairs.
I think that this was a pretty good idea for a compromise, but I personally wouldn’t bother using it and would just start from scratch. I want a collection of pairs that are as high as they can go!
QUOTE originally posted by Niet
I didn't answer yet because I'm not too sure how to do so without sounding rude, but...
> Only the RNG portion will remain fixed.
That's your answer right there. While other factors such as species, type, size difference etc. will be recalculated to allow for things like evolutions to occur, the random component won't change after their initial meeting.
That said, I'm considering just dropping the RNG part entirely. Just like for the Shelter Reload Cost, the RNG portion might make in-universe "sense" in some ways (ie. a random couple meeting will, all else being equal, like each other a slightly random amount), but it doesn't really add anything to the game and instead just makes it frustrating to find the perfect pair. So I might just remove the RNG entirely, honestly.
QUOTE originally posted by Niet
Q: "What will happen to existing 99% breeding pairs?"
Assuming both Pokemon are of the same species (not just the same evolutionary line), they will have the maximum possible base compatibility under the new system. Actual compatibility will continue to be affected by level, happiness, etc.
We are considering eliminating RNG as a factor, in favor of environmental factors such as the V-wave.
QUOTE originally posted by Lucifer
My probem is my pokemon aren't the same species /D; About half of all my pairs (excluding ditto-required ones obv) aren't the same species for aesthetic reasons. I'd rather not have to make them the same species because I like the dimorphism, but it's just an annoyance to fix, not a huge complaint.
edit: unless I totally misunderstood it? I'm saying, for example I have a Growlithe/Arcanine pair. As I understand it, it's % would go down because of the size difference under the new calculations and I'd improve it by making them both Arcanines.
QUOTE originally posted by Niet
You understand correctly, breeding different evolution stages of the same evolutionary family will not be optimal under the new system. But that's okay! You can't always pair aesthetics with 100% optimal gameplay, and it's not like the difference in compatibility resulting from this will be that drastic. Certainly something that can easily be overcome by use of modifiers like Happiness at the very least. :)
Part Two: Expectations vs Reality
Anyways, what was the point of all that? That was to give you the context of how I approached this update. I believed that pair collections would be left in tact, with only a handful of issues surrounding species difference. I thought that Niet had read & understood the primary concern that I, and others, had about users losing their pair collections. I thought that he saw these concerns, and flexed the plans to accomidate for us. However, with the this thread's introduction of requiring natures to match to provide a base maximum percentage pair, we are starting over at the beginning, and it leads me to wonder. Were Niet and I ever on the same page? Did I convince myself of that due to wishful thinking? What was the point of removing RNG, if not to help people preserve their pairs?Part Three: I am Confusion & Frustraite
Now I watch this thread unfold: Mostly gut reactions to the new V-Wave proposal and the Red Gigaremo changes. That fire gets put out. But in putting out the fire, something else is mentioned: Something I forgot about...QUOTE originally posted by Niet
I see some demands (not requests, demands) for "why Natures?" to which I can very easily say "why not Natures?" but that's not an answer. Someone mentioned not understanding why "a food preference" should affect compatibility, but... that's not what a Nature is. Nature causes flavour preferences, not the other way around. As for the why, you can insert your own reasoning but I kinda like the concept that "shared interests" leads to better compatibility.
Gameplay-wise, it adds more diversity in options available to the player, which is rarely a bad thing. Does it "penalise" you for preferring mixed pairs for personal "flavour" reasons? Sure, if you want to look at it that way, but I would argue that doing things for "flavour" reasons is always gonna be suboptimal in some way, and that's okay.
I will also note that if I had made Nature a part of the compatibility calculations from the start, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, it would just be a "fact of life" on PFQ.